Home | News    Wednesday 29 December 2010

Sudan’s FM warns of war with Juba over Darfur rebels

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December 28, 2010 (KHARTOUM) — Sudan foreign minister Ali Karti warned today that South Sudan support to Darfur rebel groups will lead to war with the new country.

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Foreign Minister Ali Ahmad Karti (R) talks to the press with the visting Arab League chief Arm Moussa upon his arrival in Khartoum on December 28, 2010 (Getty)

If the South Sudan government wants to start its new era with a war that will be the case if it harbors Darfur movements, said the Sudanese official in a press briefing in Khartoum with the visiting Arab League Secretary General Amr Moussa.

"We want the South to have a healthy start, safe and stable and we do not want it to be a party to what is going on between the government and the Darfur movements," Karti further said.

The minister pointed out to government allegations that the southern Sudan ruling SPLM harbors Darfur rebels groups and supports them with logistics and weapons. Since last November, Sudanese warplanes also bombed different areas in southern Sudan saying they hit Justice and Equality Movement (JEM) fighters.

Minni Minnawi, the sole signatory of Darfur Peace Agreement and former Senior Presidential Assistant is now based in Juba. His forces clashed with the Sudanese army recently in different areas in Darfur and he is considered as "legitimate target" by Khartoum.

The government says JEM rebels are now trained by the southern Sudan army SPLA and Ugandan army, but the rebels and Juba denied the allegations.

Southern Sudanese are expected to vote for secession in a referendum on self-determination scheduled to be held on 9 January. The ruling party in the semi-autonomous region called to vote for separation accusing the National Congress Party (NCP) of not making unity attractive.

Karti stressed that the self-determination right aims to realize peace and not war he also said that his government will respect the outcome of the vote.

Officials from the ruling NCP to begin by President Omer Al-Bashir repeated pledges today that Khartoum will respect the result of the referendum which is expected to be widely in favor of secession.

The visiting Amr Moussa said the Arab League said there was no indication that north and south would return to war.

"I don’t see any indication that the parties have the willingness to go back to war," Moussa said, adding "What is going on between them is far away from war. There is a political good will."

The Arab League chief who will dispatch some 87 observers to monitor the referendum said the regional organization will "respect the result of the referendum and what the voters decide," he said.

(ST)

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  • 29 December 2010 08:02, by padiit gaga

    North sudan was aliar to said that GOSS support Darfure that is why the bombed South ,it is possible North sudan is just only want the way to destroy CPA the do that to let south fight back, but south was so quit durign the attack north .south did fight back to make reveng.

    this is visible way every body know north sudan want to break CPA by claimed that south train and support Darfur rebel. this clain is invain.

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  • 29 December 2010 08:09, by Jongkuch

    South Sudan does not support any group in Darfur. What we know is that Khartoum, when in troubles, looks for escapegoats to bear the responsibilities of its own failures. Find different reasons to start a war with South Sudan not over Darfur because we do not have interest in Darfur. We did not tell the people of Darfur to fight against their masters in Khartoum, but they have better answers for you.

    Jongkuch

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  • 29 December 2010 08:15, by Victory

    Mr,F.minister,

    May you shut up your mouth,who told you that south sudan is supporting dafur rebles?even if its happend to betrue what’s up with it? why are you very fraustrated?who was bothering you when your brothershood (arabs) such as egypt,libya ..etc used to support you to fight the south &to kill innocent peoples? what you have done to southern sudanese will be done to you likwise,wait & see dafurian are yet to avenge,they are not through with you,long live SOUTH SUDAN.

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  • 29 December 2010 08:17, by Bol Deng

    In a traditional fight, when you throw your spear wrong on someone,the result might be ugly when that person you aim catch it and end up throwing your own spear on you. This is true because your own spear can take you to the tomb. Better arm properly and you will be alright.

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  • 29 December 2010 08:22, by Darfuri 100%

    Ha Ha Ha Ha.You are joking men!We Darfuris will not let you to touch our brothers southerner.We will beat you like we are doing in these days.All amrginalized people now understood your tactics which are useless.what is worse you NCP has no forces on the ground to fight with.So how you are gonna face south which is now stronger than ever as well as Darfuris who all are united these days to beat your ass??Do you know idiots of NCP what the united resistance forces did in past few days in Shangil Tobai and Dar alsaam two area about 75 KG of Elfasher.Darfuri united forces beat your always beaten forces and made run unitl Elfasher town.People said and saw that one of the soldier found died while runing for a long distance.Also resources told us that there are 35 soldiers of Genicidaire Omer Elbashir have been lost in Dar alsaam in which some relative’s trying to communicate the resistance forces to free them.All in All NCP forcces have and never win the battle on farfur field untill they rooted completley.Therefore O NCP you seem very cleaver that you dont want to face fire from tow side so that loose the power.This is very clear that you are going to let South sudan get their rights.Beacuse if you try to disrupt the reffernda you will loose the power.but make sure that we darfuris will beat you again where you sleep and send inncent black race nation to send them as soldiers to fight their brothers.
    But nowadays all soldiers understood their cause and they just implementing the orders by going to the battle.But when they face their brothers and after the frist shot they will leave all weath and vehicles to their brother benifit them.Its a good idea that all black in the different forces unit do not fight out side rather they want to find way to escape how good is this!therefore the NCP forces are demoralized totally and have no self and soul to fight in a war which is useless.Finally I say Darfur will rule sudan sooner or later.And you that if we came to our point of nowhere,you will find to kicking you in the head where sound sleep comes.
    Long live all black in Sudan United,long live South Sudan/SPLM/A.long live all marginalized tied together.
    Shame to those who commmitted Genicide and still committing it.

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    • 29 December 2010 15:04, by Murr

      You couldnt be more right CHAMP",but should the DARFURIAN had joined the SPLA Long ago, the fucking Arabs would have been the one exterminated!!

      And ofcourse the deliberate and systematic extermination inflicted on DARFURIANS by the ARABS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPEN OR NOT BE HAPPENING!...that is GENOCIDE!!

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  • 29 December 2010 08:26, by Maguangdit

    "We want the South to have a healthy start, safe and stable and we do not want it to be a party to what is going on between the government and the Darfur movements,"

    Mr. Karti, you and your retarded Islamists have been believing in "Divide and Rule" policies besides Machiavelli politics that "Those who deceive always find those who allow themselves to be deceived" but there you go! You accepted yes that Southern Sudan is gone. We have been telling you before that we are gone since we are a new generation unlike the previous generation of 1950-70s. However, if you can not let Abyei go and then accept free and fair popular consultation on Blue Nile and Nuba Mountains, guess what? We can not let you live free!

    The best things to be done by your government is to demarcate the border peacefully, leave us free with our oil, tell your Maseria criminals to take off their hands in Southern Sudan, pay your own debts you incurred when you bought the weapons you used to kill us, and face your own and retarded Islamists in the North without promoting terrorism in Southern Sudan. Otherwise, we will be a pain in the neck for you untill you accepted the truth as you finally acknowledged that Southern Sudan is gone!

    Let us design our own governments-state and national governments-without your retarded policies without visions and missions for the people of Sudan. You have been insulting us that we can not govern ourselves but we have already shown to you and we will prove more over the coming years.

    One thing that I expect is that almost those you suppressed in the Northern Sudan will flee and find a safe haven in the Southern Sudan very soon. However, We will soon enjoy equality, freedom, justice, and protection of individual rights in Southern Sudan and you will see how a best country would look like.

    Long live Democratic Republic of Southern Sudan!
    Long live all the people of Southern Sudan!

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  • 29 December 2010 09:00, by Aleu

    Ali Karti of North Sudan.

    I think there is No one will fear about your threat which you guys are always post on Southern Sudanese people. There are Southern Sudanese militia inside Northern Sudan for years and they have had been suppoorting by Khartoum government for example, the recently conflicts in Malakal was caused by those miltitia who were in Northern Sudan and they were been back up by Khartoum government is that not violation of the CPA.? Bombing civilian in Northern Bahr el Ghazal State and Abyei District was it not a violation of the CPA.

    Here in Southern Sudan, there is no signs that, Darfuri rebels are getting training by the SPLA of Southern Sudan. The Darfuri can not and will not be stop just by threaten neighbouring countries and they are rebels and the rebel can reach anywhere in the world and find it what they wanted to defend their rights. Personal I know the agenda of ruler in Sudan government just by killing people separately ethnic one by one so that you guys get ride of them as you guys successful doing that on Southern Sudanese and now the Darfurian people we know everything you guys are trying but it will not work this time because people are tired your policies in the Sudan.

    I think every body have learn something when Sudan government had absolutely spent more time in killing his own citizens instead of helping them. We Black African tribes in Sudan region will not listen or faer what so ever you guys want to do. Child can take only 18 years to become a powerful human being on earth and for that matter, the ethnic in Sudan will take those years to have everything you guys thought and you the North Sudanese will be begging us if that threaten agenda continues.

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  • 29 December 2010 10:14, by mohammed ali

    I think this is a good piece of advice! It is honest and sincere.Politicians in the South can say whatever they want; but military activity cannot be hidden.The southern officers in the Joint millitary command admitted this simple millitary fact and promised to solve this problem soon, because it is them who is going to suffer and not the five star hotel addicts!

    Unless politicians want the south to continue war for another 50 years , they should think about keeping peace at home and with their neighbours.

    Mousevini has different agenda! Perhaps you remember when he was talking about LRA in Darfur; this is a big lie!He wants to use the south as an station to keep the north bussy, while he could swallow the south alone.This why he used his helicopter! The man is very ambitious and dreamy!

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    • 29 December 2010 10:44, by Sam.Eto

      I dont think there is any doubt about the SPLM supporting and helping the darfur rebels. All international parties know this - it is no secret. The US is warning the SPLM too. No one is sure how much aid or support or even how big a role Uganda plays in all this. But one thing is clear the SPLM has been warned - dont play with fire.

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    • 29 December 2010 10:54, by Sam.Eto

      I dont think there is any doubt about the SPLM supporting and helping the darfur rebels. All international parties know this - it is no secret. The US is warning the SPLM too. No one is sure how much aid or support or even how big a role Uganda plays in all this. But one thing is clear the SPLM has been warned - dont play with fire.

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    • 29 December 2010 11:00, by Maguangdit

      Mr. Mohammed Ali,
      We don`t want your retarded lies. "Our 5-10 years old boys in the Southern Sudan villages are better than you Arabs in Northern Sudan". Please, go to your Northern Sudan with your retarded religion and preach Nothern Sudanese. We are tired of your lies and patronizing or infantilizing of Southern Sudanese as children. If you are afraid that Uganda is ready to join us in war this time, you should avoid the war. Your cousins in Egypt last time feared you will stream to Egypt should another war break out; if this is not a foreseeable reality, then that is why we always say you are lies and we are fed up with your lies.

      Let me warn you of one thing, Arabs bleed too and you know this well. Also, those who were fighting for you all these years were Southerners and Darfuris but this time, they decided to withdraw and you will face them if you choose to fight another war with the Southern Sudan.

      Furthermore, the fact that we did not respond to your provocations was not fear but we want to implement the CPA because we are peace-loving people. We don`t fight to go to heaven! However, remember the rest of the remaining issues will be resolved soon with you.

      You also know that drums are beating from every corner and inside Khartoum of Sudan against your lead criminal Al-Bashiir and other criminals of the National Criminal Party. Sahidiq Al Mahdi and the leader of the Past Criminal Party, Mr. Al Turabi, and the rest reveal a worrying manifestations of violence of the next few months should your criminal Al-Bashir fail to bent to their demands.

      Please, be advised that the policy of blackmailing is not functioning this time and you know this well. Have your retarded Islam and terrorism in the North Sudan and don`t place any foot in our SOuthern affairs. But remember that we will turn off and stop our oil flowing to Port Sudan even if it is a matter of time but no federalism or confederalism though you are still dreaming of this dead ambition you earlier rejected during the independence of Sudan from Anglo-Egyptian Condominium.

      See you dude in Southern Sudan looking for a lucrative job soon though I know I will employ you to clean my toilet and wash my cloths at my house!

      I was a supporter of largest, united, and democratic Sudan but you shattered this aspiratioon. Therefore, good luck guys with your evil in the North. Enjoy your Islam and terrorism! We are done with you!

      Long live Southern Sudan!
      Long live all the people of Democratic Republic Southern Sudan!

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      • 29 December 2010 12:47, by mohammed ali

        Maguangdit

        Cool down man, all people are equal , there is nobody who is better than the other; so if you have any thought of being better or worest or less than anyother human on earth , then you are wrong!

        What is your problem with Arabs! They have never set a foot in the South and they have never millitary invaded or occupied the south. The main three muslim states established in the present Sudan were Darfur Sultanat, Musabat Kingdom in Kordofan and the Funj sultanat who destroyed the Christian Nubian Kingdom in Soba.These three kingdoms were 100% African. Even northerners had never invaded or extended their rule to the South.

        It is the white man who invaded enslaved the South and all of Africa and not the Arabs.It is them who came with their supremacy,apartheid and christianity , as christianity did not extend from the Nubian north to the South , at that time.It is the christian british who annexed the south to the north after closing the the borders and forbidding the natural human interaction and started a religous and not a civilian education in the south to try and stop the spread of Islam to their colonies.They sow the seeds of hatred by telling you that you could be enslaved by the Arabs , while the Kingdom which was existing in the north at that time was 100% African! At the same time their queen was the biggest slave trader , shipping millions of African as slaves to their new colony in America.

        As for Uganda , we are not afraid of them , they were joining you in the war and the tried to invade Juba but they failed.Both of you were not able to occupy a single town in the South and what you have achieved in peace you could have never get during war.This why we want peace to prevail , for you and for us!

        Yes Arabs do bleed and we do bleed, this why we are calling for referundum and you live in peace and we live in peace without hatred.

        The drums are calling even more violently in the South by Ator and others and we hope you could settle them peacfully as any turmoil there will affect us.

        There is nothing wrong with any job as long as you earn your money in a decent and honest way, that doesn’t make you inferior to anyone!I used to wash my clothes and toilets alone and I donnot see why not doing it for others if I need money and poor.Poverty is not a sin , hatred is!

        There are more African muslim than Arab muslims and the biggest religon in Africa is Islam.Christianity is not an African religion, it was spread in Africa mainly by the white man colonizers, where they pray to god seperately in different churges designed only for the white man, black christians were not allowed!Unlike in Islam we all stand infront of god as equal ..black, whit , rich, poor..etc

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        • 29 December 2010 15:51, by Sudani Logik

          M. Ali

          Long time since I’ve seen your conflicting comments on here.... Let me give u a heads up on why Sudanese Arabs are hated by many African Sudanese, simply because many of them think they’re better than Africans and ironically many lighter skinned Arabs think they are better than northern Sudanese Arabs. How funny is that shit...

          But that does not mean all Arabs are bad as some have commented, there’s good and bad everywhere, Islam does not teach to apply shari’a law on trouser wearing women and turn a blind eye to theft of public funds by your greedy NCP leaders. What is practiced in the north by many is not Islam, its hypocracy.

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          • 29 December 2010 21:09, by mohammed ali

            Mr. Logic,

            I told you that you are purely northerner and you talk like northern political opposition parties!You pretend to defend southerners , while your main aim is to attack the NCP.There is nothing wrong with critisizing the NCP or the government.That is your right!It is wrong to exploit other people plight for your own selfish cause.

            You talk about hatred! There is no excuse for hatred; even the one which you gave is not acceptable!It is conflicting to talk about Sudanese Arabs and Sudanese Africans as all Sudanese are Africans. The Arabs had never been away from Africa since the incipience of history , the Red Sea is ever expanding and it was not as big as today.People are still crossing it with very small boats in less than a day.They invaded only north Africa to liberate it from the Romans and specifically in Egypt by a request from Egyptian christians.They did not invade Nigeria, Senegal,Mali and most of west Africa and east Africa where the majority are muslims.It is only when the white man came to enslave us ,they started speaking about Arabs and slavery, while they enslaved all of Africa.

            I agree that some people think that they are better humans than others, but doesn’t that exist in the South as well?!At least in the north , though it exist to some degree but they hide it and they donnot make it public.Watch this web site and see that some people think that they are better than the other tribe, and this coming from, presumably educated people.You forbid others from making generalisation , while you allow yourself to commit the same sin!

            Sharia law doesn’t forbid trousers and many ladies are using it all over Sudan.Or you talking about that 30 years old communist lady journalist who married an 84 years old journalis and owner of a newspaper, who died in the gulf in about 7 days after his honey-moon!She inherited a huge some of money as he has no childrens ( one houde in Khartoum worth at least more than $ 1 millions) Well she knowes how to make money and how to be famous!

            Sharia does’t and should not and any law should not protect any person who loot public funds , whether he is NCP or not.Ther is no excuse for that!NCP members are not angels , they are humans and should be treated as such!

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            • 30 December 2010 03:41, by australian

              Mohammed Ali: There is so much you said that is wildly wrong, but I think Manguangdit answered most of it well. Your history is all askew. If the Muslims invaded Egypt to help it against the Romans, that would have been very nice of them, but they stayed forever and destroyed most of Christianity, and forced conversions to Islam - they are finishing the job now, raping Egyptian Christian girls, shooting people in churches, not allowing Muslims to become Christians. And once-great Egypt is now a typical Muslim hell-hole.
              Even if you were brainwashed when you were young, at some stage in your life didn’t you start thinking for yourself? Everywhere Islam has gone in history, slavery and oppression has gone. Muslims have enslaved white people too. That is a fact!
              You say there is no excuse for hatred. Then what about your Prophet, who was full of hatred and killed anyone who disagreed with him? No excuse for him, either? I bet you have a million excuses for all the horrible things your Prophet did...
              You say the British "spoke" about Arab slavery of black people. Well, they spoke the truth, or why would the Arabs have gone to war with the British because their entire economy depended on slavery!! Slavery is part of Islam...Mohammed killed men and took their wives and children as slaves. The Koran sanctions it; it is halal. Slavery has never been part of Christianity, and Christians made it illegal. As soon as the Christians left, the Arabs started it again. These are facts.

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              • 30 December 2010 07:58, by mohammed ali

                Mr.Austrelian,

                Brainwashed...me! Look at yourself, you are in Australia, do you know whose country is this.Does it belong to the white christians.It is only recently in the 21st century the white man and the church appologized to the owners of the land, when it is too late and they were already robbed of their land, history , culture , civilization and even life.

                You are really pathetic!Go and read about the history of Australia , when Britain dump it’s children, without their parents, in thousands to increase the number of the white man population and confiscate the land of Original Australians!

                Go and see the film The Rabbit Proof Fence , it is a true story and the three ladies were alive until recently.It is about three ladies of an original Australian mother and a white "illigitmate" father.They were snatched from their home and mother , because they had a noble christian white man blood which was supposed not mix with the "dirty" black man blood and this was by LAW!!!! They were forced to stay in the church and were given christian names.But they escaped from their "jail" in the chruch.Here are the links ,you can watch it online or you can order it from Amazon.com.
                Watch it and see how inhuman was the white-man church to the original Australians.After that come and talk about brain washing.

                http://www.tv-links.eu/movies/Rabbit-Proof-Fence_5694/

                http://www.tv-links.eu/linkview2.html?data=MzczOTAw&t=2

                By the way Christianity is not an African religion nor an European religion, it is a middle eastern religion .The original bible was in a sister language to the Arabic language, and Jesus (Peace be upon Him) would never have a picture with European features of white skin, blue eyes and blond hair , he would have black eyes , black hair and a brown skin , what is called middle easter features!

                Young man , go and do some readings and come back to talk about Islam and Christianity!

                Go and read about African history , Who enslaved Africans for centuries is it the Arab muslims or the White European Cristians, who build Apartheid regimes in South Africa and Rhodesia (Zimbabwi) and elswhere in Africa , is it the Arab muslims or The Christian white-man.

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                • 30 December 2010 10:44, by australian

                  Mohammed Ali: Did I say I was against the apology to aboriginal Australians? You assume I am a nasty racist because I am white? Well...so clever of you...the world will go far with your attitude.
                  So, did the Arab Muslims apologise to the black Sudanese for taking them as slaves? Well,did they? Oh, I forgot: according to you, it never happened!
                  Illusion is bliss for Muslims! We Christians have a tradtion of acknowledging our sins and trying to make up for them. As a Christian, I have to take responsibility for what my people have done. And you?
                  The British, by the way, could have just killed all the Sudanese who fought for independence. But they didn’t. They left. When do Muslims leave when they are not wanted? Muslims have very thick skins!
                  By the way, you say "Whose country is this?"
                  Aboriginal Australians do not say Australia only belongs to aborigines; they acknowledge the white people. And I say Sudan belongs to all who have been born in Sudan, Christian, Muslim, whatever. And they need to get along, which means Islam has to let go of its supremacism.
                  But of course, then Islam would no longer be Islam. What a problem.

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                  • 30 December 2010 12:48, by mohammed ali

                    Mr.Australian,

                    So you are a white Australian! Then let me talk properly to you!

                    Why should you have anything against a useless and futile appology coming after centuries and everything which belongs to the owner of the land has gone forever? Is it going to give the aborgini back their land , culture ,civilization, language or you are telling me they don’t they are too inferior to have their own civilization.

                    No I am not going to tell you that slavery didn’t exist in Sudan.It did exist in North Sudan and it is still untill now existing in the SOUTH!

                    But who told you that we are white enslaving black Sudanese?Who told you that we are Arabs? We are mixture of Arabs and Africans and Arabs had mixed with Africans throughout history and all-over Africa , untill the white man came with his supremacy, racism,apartheid and christianity with church’s for the white-man and anothor for the inferior black man!Did you"white christians" allowed your noble christian blood to mix with the infreior "dirty" blood!whether in Africa or Australia?Did you see the Rabbit fence, and how cruel you christians pursiut the young girls and chased them after they scaped from their jail in the church which was supposed to be a house of god!Oh , I have forgotten , you have already generously appologized!

                    Oh yee you have a tradition ( We Christians have a tradtion of acknowledging our sins and trying to make up for them.) Oh yee , the Red indians are going to get their land , culture, language and they are not going to be pictured as primitive and savage creatures ,also this going to happen with the aborgini after your genorous appology, the one and a half Iraqi aregoing to come to life again after you discovered that Toni Blair and Bush were delibrately lying about WMD , to justify invading Iraq and bombing it the stone age..we should start celebrating from now!!

                    ((The British, by the way, could have just killed all the Sudanese who fought for independence. But they didn’t.)) How generous they were!!! and how arrogant you are!!! They could have just kiled us...Pathetic really pathetic. Who asked them to come in the first place, and why did they come?!They did kill savagely , Lord Kitchener after the end of the battle was shooting the wounded soldiers on the head with his own pistol, just like you do for animals, how merciful you Christians!!

                    Australia is not the aborginis country , it is the white man country , who owns every thing , the political power , the money, the culture and almost everthing.Where are these aborginies? are they still there? Do you see them? you made them extinct!

                    We are not foreginers to our land and we will be fine if you just leave us alone.Come to Khartoum and you will see that the church is standing side-by-side with the mosque.There are more than 2.5 millions living in every single town and city of the north in peace and harmony and they will not leave to the south even if the south seceded.
                    By the way who told you that there no muslims in the south? There may be more than christians.

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                    • 30 December 2010 21:04, by australian

                      Wow. Your ravings cannot be answered to. You swerve from the past to the present, you take a fictional film as fact, you have no idea about even Sudan, let alone Australia.
                      And I did not say there are no Muslims in the south. Of course there are...I have seeen them for myself. And I know your type. Please don’t go to south Sudan and infect the Muslims there with your crazy hatred.
                      As for everything else, I can’t be bothered, and you would not listen.

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                      • 30 December 2010 23:23, by mohammed ali

                        Oh, of course YOU would not listen, it was not a fiction film and two of the three ladies were alife when the film was pictured.The law which prohibited the mixture of the ultra pure white man blood with the "dirty" "inferior" black man was not a fiction film. IT eas not the only film and there were many books and stories about how you have horribly treated the Aborgini.It was worst than South Africa South was lucky to have neighbours to support them , but the poor aborgini were alone untill they are almost extinct by you dirty racial polcy.This law did not exist in Australia only but it did exist in other parts of Africa like South Africa and Rhodesia (Zimbabwi).

                        Hatred is what you are trying to dissiminate here..by telling people "you will still black", well we are also black and you are the "superior saver" THE WHITE MAN.

                        By telling us "the British could have kill us instead of giving you independence", you mean to show us love!

                        I know much more about the history of Australia than you and certainly knowI much more about Christianity than you , but you defintly know nothing about Islam; or you were not expecting a blck man to be more educated than you!

                        I even know about the ’Lost generations" or the "stolen children" when the Aborgini children were snatched from their mothers and famillies by fedral and state government agencies and church missions and that was done by "law’ the white man law, from 1869 untill 1969 , though it existed "unlawfully" untill the 70th .That law was called the Aborgini Protection Act a typical hypocritical name.The Bringing them Home Report says:

                        ((Nationally we can conclude with confidence that between one in three and one in ten Indigenous children were forcibly removed from their families and communities in the period from approximately 1910 until 1970. In certain regions and in certain periods the figure was undoubtedly much greater than one in ten. In that time not one family has escaped the effects of forcible removal (confirmed by representatives of the Queensland and WA Governments in evidence to the Inquiry). Most families have been affected, in one or more generations, by the forcible removal of one or more children.))This was done because they were half-cast and have mixed blood in their body! This was done with the full support of the Christian Church!!Well , we northen Sudanese are all half-cast a product of two HUMAN ETHINICITY, product of normal human interaction, and we are very very very much ultra-proud of our MAGNIFICANT BLACK COLOUR.

                        (( The evidence indicated that in a large number of cases children were brutally and forcibly removed from their parent or parents, possibly even from the hospital shortly after their birth ))"The Bringing Them Home Report."

                        (( In Western Australia, the Aborigines Act 1905 removed the legal guardianship of Aboriginal parents and made their children all legal wards of the state, so no parental permission was required))

                        ((I was at the post office with my Mum and Auntie [and cousin]. They put us in the police ute and said they were taking us to Broome. They put the mums in there as well. But when we’d gone [about ten miles (16 km)] they stopped, and threw the mothers out of the car. We jumped on our mothers’ backs, crying, trying not to be left behind. But the policemen pulled us off and threw us back in the car. They pushed the mothers away and drove off, while our mothers were chasing the car, running and crying after us. We were screaming in the back of that car. When we got to Broome they put me and my cousin in the Broome lock-up. We were only ten years old. We were in the lock-up for two days waiting for the boat to Perth.))This you Christians not the Arab Muslims!!

                        How dare you talk about Islam and Humanity , all this was done with full support and collaboration of the church and under it is supervision!God has created us BLACK and we love it!

                        Arabs didn’t do so, certainly Islam will never support such evil and horrible inhuman crime.I must say Jesus (peace be upon Him) will not support such a horrendous crime, and god will never ever forgive such crimes!!

                        This brings me to the big question , what interst you have in the South? Donnot tell me for the sake of humanity and Christianity! Who can believe you? Do you want to come to the south and establish The Southerner Protection Act and then start your looting of the wealth of the people!If you think southerners are that stupid , you are wrong!!

                        Or you are telling me this also a fiction film, or something in the past or we have appologized!!!

                        I donnot hate , but I will be inhuman if I donnot hate such a thing!!How could the church , the house of God accept to recieve children who were stolen from their families..not one ,two..ten.. thirty..but thousands!Why for a clour which was given to them by God!!

                        Of course I will listen , tell me what you can say...this was fiction ..certainly it looks like fiction to me , did these people have brains to do that, were they human beings at all.Donnot tell me this was in the past, this was happening untill the 70th.Oh my God.. Oh ya- allah ..Oh Jesus..Ihave nothing to say more! Have you ?!!!

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        • 30 December 2010 00:56, by Maguangdit

          Mohammed Ali and Sudani Logik,
          I have no problem with all Arabs and Islam. There are bad and good Arabs. However, the activities (scorched-earth policy during the civil war) of your Majaahidiin (crusaders) in the South Sudan have turned me into Southern Sudan secessionist and extremist against Arabs though I love our country to remain united and democratic. Mr. Ali, the numbers of Southern Sudanese killed by Arabs were not killed by the White Europeans as you alluded to or implied. Also, Europeans decided to separate us from you (Southern policy) because they realized that your policy against Southerners was so evil that the best way to deal with you the Arabs was to separate us from you since you imposed your religion on people by force as you have done in “Darfur Sultanate, Musabat Kingdom in Kordofan and the Funj Sultanate who destroyed the Christian Nubian Kingdom in Soba”.

          Mr. Ali, we in the Southern Sudan have our own traditional religions. So, we neither need your religion (Islam .i.e. terrorism) nor Christianity unless someone convinced us as to why their religion is the best to follow. Neither of you is African; both Europeans and the Arabs were imperial explorers and wanderers respectively though you claim you were traders rather than accepting the fact that you were looking for food, which is the reason you always exploit the property of other people as you have done in Southern Sudan.

          When it comes to slavery and enslavement of Southern Sudanese, we don`t deny that Europeans did not enslave Africans at large. However, they did not impose their policy on Southern Sudanese; instead, they taught them and convinced them to accept Christianity through their own free will, a policy Arabs had never dreamed about to implant. Mr. Ali, if you did not invade Southern Sudan, how would you term your nuance and noisy blabbers against our land in Southern Sudan today?

          But for now, imagine Southern Sudanese languishing in the Khartoum suburbs or outskirts, are they not Sudanese? What did your Islamic government do to relieve them? What makes your religion the basis of governance? When will you the Arabs grow up and denounce that religion is separate from government? When will you the Arabs accept that religion is a matter of personal choice? Don`t you the Arabs know that I can live my best life as a humanist, agnostic, atheist, or animist?

          Mr. Ali, you have completely tarnished the image of your Islamic religion since you turned it into Islamic militancy and terrorism rather than a service to God. If you believe that “all people are equal , there is nobody who is better than the other”, then I would say you are not a Muslim or you will be condemned soon by your cleric or Imam as an infidel. Mr. Ali, if we are really equal, why then Christian men can not marry Muslim women? What does this mean to you? Does it mean equality? Why would anyone who is not a Muslim an infidel? Please, review your religion and detach yourselves from the evil and the world will love you? Today, Arab and Islam almost mean terrorist and terrorism and you know this well. It is your policy dating back to the founder of your religion Mr. terrorist Mohamed since he imposed his religion on people by killing them if they did not accept or submit to Islam.

          When it comes to Ugandan issue, we don`t want war but if you impose it on us, then we will defend ourselves and you know what it means today as we speak. Uganda anyway is interested in participating in this issue because it has clearly known that you have been supporting your like Mr. Terrorist of the LRA Joseph Kony. If you claim Juba supports, or is supporting Darfur rebels, then we will claim you support, or are supporting the LRA terrorists. Also, if you Uganda directly participate, it is not a sin either since we know for sure we have been fighting all these years together with you and your terrorist organization so-called the Arab League and we will stand our position no matter how hard you try to overcome us.

          Also, the issue of Athor is nothing; we will solve this very simply. We are Southerners and there are many ways of bringing Athor Deng`s rebellion to an end. The guy is a power-hungry man but we have many positions in the Southern Sudan that he could even take ten posts if that will solve his problems. You have seen the initiative Salva Kiir Mayardit took last time when he pardoned all the militia you used against us in your proxy war in the Southern Sudan. This was the best policy or plan that has shocked the asses of all Arabs in the North Sudan. Those who are with you for money will get money in the Southern Sudan and unity in the Southern Sudan is our priority today. So, those Dinka, Nuer, Acholi, Azande, Balanda, Kakua, etc are brothers and sisters and we have decided this time to reject your policy of divide and rule. We will design our own constitution which recognizes the potential of everybody where everyone in Southern Sudan will grow in his or her equal opportunity that is open to all talents.

          In term Islam and Christianity, I can not be convinced by your fraudulent statistic that Islam is the biggest religion in Africa. I know you have been completely blinded by Islam that you don`t see the other side of the history. This claim is not new. You have been claiming that Muslims were the majority in Sudan always but we have tried to prove you wrong last time in April election in Sudan but you and the criminals of the National Criminal Party rejected this call. So, leave alone your claim that Islam is the largest religion in Africa; we have millions with different beliefs which we value more important than Islam or terrorism. African religions and Christianity don`t preach that killing innocent people will take people to heaven but your evil religion and their retarded preachers strongly indoctrinate this policy in you.

          Finally, thanks Mr. Ali for accepting to clean my toilet and wash my clothes over the next few months in Southern Sudan. I have not doubt that you will be a good servant! You will deserve a good pay!. However, have a happy new year without more blowing up or Suicide Bombers for the New Year!

          Dear Sudani Logik,
          I`m sorry but I`m compelled to feel horribly about all Arabs and Islam accordingly due to their mistreatments of Southern Sudanese; even today in Khartoum, we have thousands of Southerners suffering without any hands from those who claim we are equal. Isn`t this ostensible! This is how the NCP failed to make unity attractive but I`m happy now that Northerners who were brainwashed to follow the visionless leadership of criminal AL-Bashiir and his cohort will taste the bitterness or sweetness of their seeds they sow! Other than this, I would stop here and let me peacefully wait for these nine days from now and we will shoot the evil by ballots, but not bullets, since we are a peace-loving people!

          Long live Southern Sudan!
          Long live the Democratic Republic of Southern Sudan!

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          • 30 December 2010 03:50, by australian

            Manguangdit: You say you have no problem with Arabs and Islam. That is nice of you, but Arabs and Islam have a problem with YOU, because you are an infidel and I presume you are black. So Islam will always have a problem with you, even if you convert and kill lots of other black people (infidels) so you can go to heaven. You will still be black. Will Muslims be happy that you "have no problem" with them? No, unless they can dominate you, rule over you, take your women, make you work for them. That is always the problem. If they can’t dominate you, they feel oppressed and miserable.
            If anyone felt like that about me, I would not say I had "no problem" with them. I am used to equality in society and I will fight to keep it that way.

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            • 30 December 2010 04:42, by Maguangdit

              Dear Australian,
              I’m an egalitarian, libertarian, and rights activist who believe in the equal potential of individual rights, liberty, and equality. So, if I live with the Arab people, I have no problem with them as long they respect my dignity and rights. However, this respect has been shattered by the Arab politics based on Islam and stupidity (chauvinism, ethnocentrism or Arab supremacy).

              Now, I have a big problem with the Arabs and their religion, by the way. It has evidently become clear that Islam is terrorism and Muslims are terrorists.

              Therefore:
              1) I never feel anyone who doesn’t believe in my religion is an infidel; this is what Islam is all about!

              2) I never feel that killing people would take the killers to heaven; this is what the Islam is all about!

              3) I never feel that there are certain people who can not marry my daughters; this is what Islam is all about!

              4) I never feel that anyone of a different religion than mine can never rule or govern me; this is what Islam is all about!

              5) I never feel that imposing my religion on others is the best means of spreading my religion; this is what Islam is all about!

              6) I never feel that enslaving anyone is holy; this is what Islam is all about!

              Dear Australian, there are thousands of problems that I can not enumerate and you know them well. Our brothers and sisters in the Northern Sudan believe they are better than others, but they are dead wrong. It is good that we will be neighboring countries over the next few months if God wills. I want to see them succeeding with their religion. The only thing I’m afraid are the minorities who can not defend their rights from cruel criminals who don’t see the freedom, rights, and equality of all people regardless of differences peculiar to each individual. Those who kill and get away with impunity; those who rape and get away with impunity; those who steal and get away with impunity; etc. and these criminals are better left alone!

              Anyway, have a happy new year!

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            • 30 December 2010 13:22, by mohammed ali

              Mr.Australian,

              I am black and I am very ..very much proud of my skin colour.Or do you think god was wrong when he created me as black!

              OH... you think we are going to do for them as you did for the aborginis.You have depleted them from their land, cultue, country, religion and even when one of you gets a child even without marriage(you donnot marry dirty black women), from a black women , you were not allowing them to mix with the "inferiror" black people.This is exactely what you did, but we never did and will never ever do!See the Rabbit fence film and I urge all of you to see it on-line.

              Or do you think that southerners are inferior and naive not to understand your true malacious aim!They are much more intelligent than you.

              Maguangdit,

              I hope you have seen the typical white-man "divide and rule". The" white-man" is telling you " you will still be black" How redicuolous!Why is skin colour so importantant to them?!The white-man who robbed a "whole " country is pretending to defending black people.

              Mr.Australian,

              How naive am I to believe in you!

              How disgusting! You talk to us as if we have not a single brain cell within our skull. Typical white-man arrogancy!

              What plans you have for the south, what are you coming to loot there?!Or you are benfiting from the billions being looted by some wrotten SPLA theives , who bought huge mansions and villas in Australia; while streets have been bought there by some SPLA leaders and you are coming a wolf in a sheep’s skin pretending to protect to protect the Black Sudanese!How pathetic!

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          • 30 December 2010 10:23, by mohammed ali

            Maguangdit,

            First of all let me remind you that when the British imposed their rule in the South ,there was no presence of a northern state or kingdom in the south. Northerners or Arabs or Muslim were not there as a state and certaily not as an Army.They were individuals , normal human beings interacting with other humans in a human way.No Army or any sort of Authority.There was no way or place of imposing anything upon you from us.The British want to stop this and the told you that we are devils and that you could be enslaved!.
            Let me qoute you from a book by Mr. Richard Cockett , the African Editor of the Economist in his book about Sudan, on page 38 , he says ( The British only pentrated into sudd in a systemic way after 1904 and it took them about another thirty years to conquer the whole south.However, the colonialist not only found huge differences between the Eqatorial region and the northern desert, they also consciouly sharpened those differences for their own purposes.Their main concern was to shape the south as a sort of religion an cultural bulwark agains the spread of Islam , in order to protect the colonizedChristian terotories to the south( Ugaanda, Kenya today)Thus, for instance, the British encouraged the Christian missionaries to convert the indigenous animist.Education in the north was geared to employment, this was not the case in the south where it was geared to the spread of christianity and the prevention of the southward spread of I slam.

            From the end of the First World War, the British therefore initiated a comperhensive, if largely surreptious, policy of creating a southernSudan seperate from the north.English rather than Arabic was made the official language of instructioin in schools.Theuse of Arabic anywhere was actively discouragedand Arab clothing was banned......in the 1920’s most of the Arab merchants, the gallaba, who traded in the main towns of the south such as Juba and Rumbek , were repatriated to the north.The closed District Order of 1922 declared the whole of the south to be off-limits to the northerners unless they had the express permission of the governer.This , together with the expulsion of the gallaba Arabs, effectively severed the south from the commercial and economic life of the rest of Sudan-or anywhere else....

            The British were intent anyway on strnagling any chance of development in the south.Arguing against people being given more money for their meager crops of cotton at auction, the British governer of upper nile province wrote with cold blooded clarity in 1928: "To provide means for the present generation to acquire sufficient wealth to enable them to obtain the various luxuries of civilization brings and make it possible for such comparative wealth to be easily gained would , in my opinion, be a mistake." Britain’s general lack of enthusiasm for the south was reflected in their choice of administrators to run the place.As distinct from the Oxbridge ( graduates from oxford and Cambridge) district commissioners swannining around the north, the british who ran the mosquito-infested south were mostly non-pensionable military officers, drisively known as the "bog barons".The nickname say it all about the British disdain for the south in contrst to what they regarded as the sophisticated and romanic Muslim culture of the north!)) this the end of the qoutation!

            Just to remind you again , there was no northern , Arab , gallaba or whatever you call us "state" in the south before the British , to impose anything upon you!The British were afraid from the normal interaction in a way of human to human!

            Even the british , today cannot defend their policy, you are coming tiday and defend their Racist and inhumane policy! Was the aparthied system in South Africa imposed by the Christian white man , the right way to convience them into Christianity? or was the aparthied system in Rhodesia(Zimbabwi) the best way to ( taught them and convinced them to accept Christianity through their own free wil)or is it now the right thing when black people of Zimbabwi decided to reedem their land stolen by the white man, to get a collective punishment from Christian Europe in the name of Human Rights and Democracy ..and bla..bla...

            Southerners living in the north ,came on their own free will and they will not go back to the south.The reason is very simple, they have a better life here! 60,0000 are at the high schools and universities! Will they find that in the pardise of the SPLA , where looting the money of the poor southerners is the norm! They find security , safty and dignity much more than in the SPLA south!

            Nobody has the right to condomn me in Islam whether be it is an Imam or clerc.In Islam the Imam is an ordinary man like me and he has no moral or religous authority on individuals, you are responsible directly to God.Imam can be any person and he is not a "holy" person , he is just a human being who can sin like anyother human!

            I am not that naieve to belive in propoganda, aginst Islam!

            You better check your statistics about Africa!According to southern muslim they constituees 25% of the south, and it is amazing that you repeat the wester propoganda when they say ,"the south which is largly anmist and christian" why not muslim and animist? or Abeyei as the oil rich region! While according to Deng Alor it is producing only 3000 bbd and it is diminishing!This the policy of "divide and rule" whish was used effectively by colonaisers, Arabs mixed with Africans since Ibrahim and Hajar and there is no Sudanese who can say I am pure Arab, we are mainly African some of us mixed with Arabs to a variable degree.

            I have no problem with your seperate state at all,.I f this brings peace then why should we wait untill the referendum! We wish you all the best and have the best place in the world and we will be happy for you and happy with what we have, whatever is small or big!

            If you are trying to insult me by your story of the toilet ,as I said there is no shame to have any job and your money decently.A job is not an insult!I did clean my toilet alone when I was student in Europe , when I was undergraduate and postgraduate and when I was working there!Now I pay for it , but I do respect those who does this job for me .The only difference between me and them is that I have more money, and by no means they are less humans than me!

            If you want me to clean your toilet you have to have to things:

            First , you make sure that you have a toilet!

            Second , you should able to afford my salary!

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      • 29 December 2010 15:59, by Sudani Logik

        Maguangdit,

        You seem educated, so why do you lower yourself to the level of the imperialist northern elite by generalising an entire people or religion (Arabs & Muslims)?

        Reading your above comment, it demeans your potential. Be better than your oppressor not equal to.

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    • 29 December 2010 13:39, by Deng E. Manyuon

      Mr Mohammed Ali,
      You are one of the members of this forum that I highly regard and respect their views and opinions on issues related to our country. Your argument is laways constructive and professional. I wonder this time whether you are losing the sight or hope! You are too emotional in your comment. Just check: "" The Southern officers in the Joint Military Command admitted this simple fact and promised to solve this problem soon, because it is them who are going to suffer and not the five star hotel addicts". That is an isult. From where on this earth did you get that information that Southern officers have admitted the presence of JEM forces in the South? Was it through the media or gossip? If it was through gossip(what you call it al-namima in Arabic), then you are lowering yourself my brother. Can any third party confirm that publicly? There is no any report confirming any major attack by JEM forces against Sudan Armed Forces using Southern soil! All their attacks were carried out deep in Darfur region. Not even along the border of South and Darfur.

      Regarding your comment about Mousevini motivation in the South, let me rest assure you that the people of the South managed to contain your NCP as well as the successive governments in Khartoum with ill intention for decades. The same method will be used to contain any one with ill motivation. We are able and capable to protect our interest carefully.

      Deng

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  • 29 December 2010 11:21, by david mabior deng

    Brain dysfunctions is proving to be contagious among these radical muslims political leaders or rather to be more precise NCP’s power-hungry politicians.Why on earth would you persistently issue threats that seem to threaten not even a small southern child?Anyway dare implement your threats and i can promise you a total annihilation on military grounds.I can even see now that recognition of our self-determination referendum is a must regardless of its transparancy because am death sure you don’t want to be thrown out of the sudan.Imagine darfur resistance from the west and SPLA from south?Don’t you see the possibility of being thrown to your asian arab empire?Anyway SPLA/M is not for that,all they want is recognition of our hard-won referendum’s results.

    David mabior
    a high school student in kenya

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  • 29 December 2010 12:41, by Mading

    Juba should his statement into consideration for that is the way Khartoum always goes against the will of southerners. He wants to start war in the name of Darfur leaders presence in the south which is not true. Allow them bark at you but keep going ahead for God of the BLACK AFRICANS (SUDANESE) in particular is with us.

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  • 29 December 2010 13:10, by mohammed ali

    Mading,

    Where are those white Sudanese, could you tell me please

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  • 29 December 2010 16:21, by original sudanese

    Stop licking the Europeans / white man behind. Every time something happens you run crying to them. Remember they are the ones who occupied our African land for long time till we got our intendance very recently. They also enslaved our African folks, sold and shipped them to America. They are the real terrorists. Do you think they love us? If the answers is yes? Why???? The correct answer is NO. They just love our resources period. Why don’t we depend on ourselves? Our grandfathers fought them for long time and kicked them out, so please don’t bring them back.

    I love Sudan
    I love Brave Original Sudanese
    I love Africa

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    • 29 December 2010 17:33, by mazer

      ignore them these are proparly white westners mohammed ALI /Original sudanese who hide behind African and Arab names not really sudanese

      they are just white wikipedians spreading false haate in sudanese history

      sudanese history have nothing to do with AMERICA sudanese history dwarfs America by 4000 years

      even if christian nubia ended 1504 with its 4000 year legacy
      america ever existed

      whites where just governnors in sudan employed by ismail nothing more

      until the black mahdist revolution even southern joined 1885 and kkicked thier ass european were taken captives by the mahdist

      whites were slaves in north Africa up tp 3 million white slaves including large number of britons and white American paid tribute Arab bblackmoors and berbers from Algeria enslaved millions of whites until white slavery ended in north Africa 1830 read more about white slaavery in north africa including white britons

      because of this history britain wanted to distort sudannese history

      watch out for whites southerners for many fake personalities in here

      i think southerners have to ignore them and quit talking about servitute

      it was the white that brought servitute to sudan
      lying and changing sudanese history zobeir was just a black darfariun who sold ivory nothing more

      history falsified by the colonist hey tried to flood sudanese pryamids with Aswan rememmber

      gbwe was a famous southerner of the 1880s who fought against arab and islam expansion advance in the south and fought even the whites

      Acient southerners went up the nile built kerma 800 years legacy then they built meroe then Ancient egypt 3000 year legacy pharaoh tuk was black

      queen candance of nubia was black

      christian nubia was black of northern sudan 3000 year history

      mohammed ali just went sudan to colonise sudan looking for ivory gold and source of nile and sudanese soilders to join the egyptian Army

      ali sucessor ismail extended south employed gordon and baker as governors 1870

      the colonist faced resitance by southerners like azande gbwe fought the fake egyptian Arab and turks and european governors colonist

      southerners joined the black mahdist revolution 1885 and kicked the fake egyptian turks european hicks killed gordon killed and garrison of khartoum slaughtered with thousands of arab egyptian and westners killed and white governors taken in chains y the mahdist until kitchner freed them 1898

      gbwe protected south against islam advance in the south 1889s a true hero for the south

      it was the colonist britain that wrote and changed sudanese history after sudan reconquest 1898

      fake egyptian arabs never did anything to the southerners or turks or northern sudanese

      the mahdist revolution was not black it united all black tribes in sudan north west beja and edven south and defeated the colonist arabs/whites

      ismail the arab egyptian kehedeve was anti-servitute all these serfvitute nonsennse camme from britain tht created two groups

      so called arab north vs black christian south

      mission after britain ctreated these differences it wanted war and joined them together 1956

      they want southerners to talk about servitute instead of Ancient egypt and Ancient nubia

      who clearly came from the south by evidence on pharaoh tuk mumies why try flood sudanese pryamids

      but islam was the real ennemey for the south it was
      gbwe that fought against islam expnsion

      sudanese history needs change and revision alot of them was falsified by colonits britain who wanted revenge by many of it citizen tken to white slavery north Africa

      after indepedance 1956

      dont read wikepida it carries alot of western theroes by coloist

      the same people that wrote your history proparly same people that flood your sudanese pryamids or change pharaoh tut bust to white

      peace signed 2005

      egyptia were black

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      • 29 December 2010 21:23, by original sudanese

        mmmn....im sudanese what are you on ????

        I love Sudan
        I love Brave Original Sudanese
        I love Africa

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      • 29 December 2010 21:26, by original sudanese

        mazer

        mmmn....im sudanese what are you on ????

        I love Sudan
        I love Brave Original Sudanese
        I love Africa

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    • 29 December 2010 17:52, by david mabior deng

      human understanding is proven hard and one made to doubt the fact that every normal human being is born with natural intelligence by individuals like original sudanese.I really pity you man and if i get hold of you the very first thing i would do is to take you to a psychatrist because i really doubt your mental capacity.Just get some little reserved respect for southerners and stop acting brainless on this site because we perceive every participator to at least be a possessor of some integrity and manners in order to coexist well with others and be of much will to respecting other’s opinions.its my hope that this message will have an impact on your future comments.

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    • 30 December 2010 01:55, by Deng E. Manyuon

      Orginal Sudanese

      It seems you are diverting the issue of Dafur rebels presence in the South to Europeans and slavery issues! You wanted us to depend on ourselves as Sudanese. Well you need to settle the issues of Sudanese identity, religion-sharia laws, external relationship, social injustice, fair distribution of resources and wealth, malady of military coups in Khartoum, freedom of experssion and movement and democratic system. These issues are not currently in the hands of Europeans.

      Regarding issue of salvery ... my friend I was very fortunate to read a lot about the culture and history of Islam. Slavery and trade have been part and parcial of Islam. Slavery has been existing in Arab culture even before Islam. Refer yourself to some books of poems during Arab Primitive Era (Al-asr Al-jahili). That Primitive Era reflects the present attitudes of some of current Arab elites and their representatives within Khartoum government. I think no need for us to climb back to the history and reopen it. Moreover, it seems it is OK or(halal)for you in the North to have bilateral relationships with Iran, Indonesia, Malesia, China and Russia, and it is not OK (haram) for the South to have the same with Europe. Are you by the way licking behind them also?

      Mr Mohammed Ali,
      You were trying to justify that Christianity was dismentaled by the African themselves who were ruling in 3 Kingdoms of Sultanat in Darfur, Kordofan and Funj. Read about Omar Ibni Al-Aass and Islamic Invasions to Egypt and his expansion to Nubian Kingdom in Sudan. Read about Nubian agreement with Islamic invaders. Who demolished church building in Nubian Kingdom? Were they African or Arab muslims? Read about Islamic Invasions in East Africa through Zanzibar(Tanzania).

      Cheers ... Gone the days of our people ignorance.

      Deng

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      • 30 December 2010 11:33, by mohammed ali

        Deng E. Manyuon,

        Sharia law was existing in Darfur sultanat before the British anexxion of Darfur to the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan

        The Europeans are interfering on daily basis on our domestic politics.From where do these weapons come!!! Common.. you are an intelligent person!.We have special envoy from every corner of the world, and I am not that naive to beleive that they are coming for the sake of our beuitful black eyes!

        Slavery existed everywhere not in Arabia only, and the Arabs didn’t enslave blacks only they enslaved mainly white europeans and Romans!It existed in north sudan and it is still existing in South Sudan.Arabs mixed with Africans from the start of history.The Red Sea which is an expansion of the great rift valey is still expanding and it is not as large as today.Most of east Africa has mixed with Arabs centuries bfore Islam.Genetically and lingustically Eritrian and Ethiopians are classified as Afro-Asiatic!

        Are you telling me that the millions of black people in South and North America were send by the Arab Muslims?!

        Soba the nubian kingdom in central Sudan(to which I belong) was destroyed by Amara Dungus the Sultan of the Funj or "al sultaan al zarga"I am not implying but this is a historical fact.There was no Christianity in the west Sudan( Darfur and Kordufan) and Christianity appeard in the South only after the white-man invasion of Africa.

        Amar Ibn Alass never entered or expanded to Nubia, the muslim tried to invade Arabia three times , but they failed and were defeated by the Seti people (the name Seti still we preseve as Nubians)Arabs had never crossed Nubia as invaders and they just build a mosque on top of an existing church!

        It seems to me you as if you are considering Christianity as an African religon! It is a middle easter religion and the Arabs are the cousions of the Jews! If you go racially about it Islam is more African , because Arabs are genetically 50% Africans!Christianity is basically a middle eastern religion hijacked by the Europeans , depicting Jesus(peace be upon him) as a white blond man with green eyes!He would probably have what they now-a-days call middle eastern features of a brown man with black hair and black eyes.

        Learning will never stop , I should keep learning and reading and I have never felt that my ignorance has never gone or will ever go!There 100 billion star on our galaxy (the milkman galaxy) and there are millions of galaxies out there on the space, and to claim that I am not igonorant is mere arrogancy.

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        • 31 December 2010 06:22, by Deng E. Manyuon

          Mohammed Ali
          Sorry Mohammed you missed the point about my expression:
          When I say " Gone the days of our people ingnorance", I personally mean the mass ignorance of our people about the issues which led to the Sudanese conflicts. If you compare the pass and present, you will find majority of Sudanese people have become more politically aware and conscious. And that conscoiusness has allow you as well as the NCP to realize the importance of exercising self determination for the people of Southern Sudan. I do agree with you that learning never stops. It is your choice to learn about the galaxies and it is purely your business to struggle to learn more about other galaxies out there and beyond the space.

          Moreover, I don’t deny that Africans were taken by whites to America as slaves. I just disagree with purifying Arabs from such practices. They have deeply involved in enslaving in their own terms. This why I refer you and Original Sudanese to some historical facts.

          Furthermore, your successive governments in Khartoum have been messing up the country for decades. How come logically you don’t expect other countries concerns on Sudan civil unrest. We are not in an isolated island or planet or galaxy. Any pain in any country affects other countries.

          Khartoum does not manufacture heavy weapons, neither Juba. All of us go and buy from different countries. What a big deal?

          Deng

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          • 1 January 2011 15:02, by mohammed ali

            Deng,
            Happy new year!

            They are messing the country for all of us , we are also messing with them!

            I have never said Arabs didn’t practice slavery, I have never said Nubian did not practiced slavery. Regretably they all did , even Africans.But non of them had practiced the mass trade of slavery , segergation, aparthid and slavery of whole nation in it’s own country and land, like what happened in South Africa,Rhodesia, Australia and America.Fortunately Rhodesia and SA had brotherly nations who supported them, otherwise they woul have been strangers in their own country.The way the White-man try to stigmitaize, villanize and demonise others with thier sins is abhorring. They colonolized us, enslaved us,looted us and still looting, set dictatorship regimes for us and now they are preaching us about demogracy, human rights , rights of homosexuals "as they tried unsuccesfully and disgustingly with Salva Kirr" and bla..bla..

            Not a single Sudanese can claim that he is "pure, if pure has any meaning here" Arab, we are all a brilliant mixture of different ethinicities.If ethinicity has any value at all , I would say the Arabs are themselves 50% ethenically and genetically Africans, even Mohammed himself is 50% ethenically African as his grand-grand father was Ismail"Ishmail"

            I don’t believe in ethinicity or identity based on it. I believe on humanity and that I belong to the human race and I believe this the basic teaching of Islam when he calls us all the son of Adam.

            Have a nice and happy new year and achieve your aspiration in a peacful referundun,but be sure Sudan will be united again , when we draw the borders together with our blessed BLACK hands.

            Peace!

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  • 29 December 2010 18:20, by original sudanese

    david mabior deng

    Mr. Intelligent why don’t you give your advice to those who use foul language all the time in this forum and abusing others??? I know truth sometimes hurts and it looks like you are hurting from what I said. Sorry if I hurt your feeling. Go back to the history books and you will find what I said was true about the Europeans and white folks. Please don’t believe me just read for your self. Thank you Sudan Turbine for letting everyone express there views freely.

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    • 30 December 2010 04:08, by australian

      Original Sudanese: Daid Mabior Deng is not "hurting", he is merely trying to teach you some facts. I don’t know where some of you got your information; I can only assume that so much of Islamic history is so embarrassing to the minds of decent people that Muslims have made up extraordinary fantasies for schoolchildren, and these fantasies have stayed with you. After all, if you knew the truth you would have to feel awful. But try it. It is sometimes unpleasant to learn the truth but in the end it sets you free.

      I am white, by the way, and I assert my right to love Sudan and the Sudanese people, and I get nothing from Sudan, no oil, no money, no nothing...I am not pretending, and I will love who I want to love without your racist permission.

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      • 30 December 2010 17:01, by original sudanese

        Australian
        Obviously not all white folks are bad, especially those who are not involved with today’s politics and tactics. I was just stating facts from recent history. Our African grandfathers did not ask European to come and invade our African lands or to enslave our people and ship them to America. That does not seem logical. Europeans simply used their power and terrorized and killed many Africans and stole their goods. Don’t blame me please, history don’t lie. By the way as you know the history books were mostly written by Europeans who know what was done by their grandfathers was wrong. Last but not least, pleas don’t use religion her. You don’t even know whether I am Muslim or Christian. Religions has nothing to do with evil behaviors, it’s the people who commit the crimes

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  • 29 December 2010 19:47, by James Garang

    All this argument I have nothing to said more because I see our brothers in Northern Sudan need to cause war between South and North Sudan to abolish the referendum of Southern Sudan. but I tell you brothers you will not make it if you try to do that make sure that you will be finish and it will be the end of Northern Muslim rule in Sudan. please the good way only let us stay friendly without war

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  • 30 December 2010 07:12, by Aleu

    This article show the seriousness that, the Sudan’s conflicts will soon united Black African Tribes in Sudan as I said early that, there will be a national Idenetity in Sudan and I am positive that, it will happen between those Arab African in North Sudan and the whole Black in this region. Whether anyone would disagree with me or not this is seem to be because our brothers of Northern Sudanese have treating none Arab in Sudan badly and they don’t even felt sorry for what they did in the first place.

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  • 30 December 2010 17:01, by original sudanese

    Australian
    Obviously not all white folks are bad, especially those who are not involved with today’s politics and tactics. I was just stating facts from recent history. Our African grandfathers did not ask European to come and invade our African lands or to enslave our people and ship them to America. That does not seem logical. Europeans simply used their power and terrorized and killed many Africans and stole their goods. Don’t blame me please, history don’t lie. By the way as you know the history books were mostly written by Europeans who know what was done by their grandfathers was wrong. Last but not least, pleas don’t use religion her. You don’t even know whether I am Muslim or Christian. Religions has nothing to do with evil behaviors, it’s the people who commit the crimes

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    • 30 December 2010 21:33, by australian

      Just one point: You say religion has nothing to do with evil bahaviour. I wonder what you think is evil? From my understanding of Islam, the Prophet Mohammed was supposed to be a perfect man who all Muslims should emulate. But Mohammed was, according to what is written about him, a man who committed many acts which most of us would find abhorrent. He even said "I have been victorious with terror." Terrorists are inspired by Mohammed to kill infidels, (Mohammed advised massacring numbers of newly conquered people to get submission from the remaining people.) And many Muslims believe it is okay to "marry" (rape) girls of nine, because Mohammed did. So of course religion has a lot to do with behaviour, because people try and be like the person who founded the religion.
      And all religious leaders were very different people, which is why Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, etc, have such different societies.
      Fortunately, most Muslims don’t copy Mohammed like the terrorists do. But they are very confused people, because they have to believe Mohammed was a good man, which goes against the facts, and against what humans instinctively believe about morality - or turns them into people like Bashir and Turabi.

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      • 31 December 2010 04:39, by original sudanese

        australian
        As I expected, it looks like you have hidden agenda. I keep telling you this is not a debate about religion. There are places for that and I am very sure when you go to these places with your false accusations about the best profit that was sent by God, you will find some intelligent Muslims who will bring you down to your knees with their knowledge and solid proofs and you will realize that you were ignorant about Islam.

        I guess even profit Mohamed peace be upon him did not get away from your white supremacy mentality. I guess since profit Mohamed did not have blue eyes as the Europeans made profit Jesus peace be upon him, even though they know he was from the Middle East, but they made that false image of him with blue eyes to make people think he was white and white folks are superior to others.

        I advise you to go to the closest mosque, because there are many in your county and you will find very peaceful people with great knowledge who I am very sure will welcome you with open arms and give you better education abut Islam and maybe one day you will see the light and repent or at least have some decency to respect the profits of God with no exception.
        I am not going to go as low as you did by insulting profit Mohamed peace be upon him or any other profit. I respect all the profits of God with no exception, from Adam all the way to Moses, Jesus and the seal of the profits Mohamed peace be upon all of them. I admire all of them and have great deal of respect to all of them. God will take care of you for what you said about profit Mohamed peace be upon him. You will find out if not in this life, then in the hereafter. God is so merciful and the door for repentance is open for all, so think about what you said as it is not too late. I can keep on and on and on this topic, but like I said this forum is not the place for that

        Now let us go back to the main topic in hand. I wish if you will be brave enough and admit the wrong doing your white folks did to our incident people in Africa not log time a go. Stop going around the main topic and be brave.

        For the sake of other folks in this forum, please no more talk about religion here. Go to Church to do that

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